www.friedhelmgoetz.com/11TY_VIOBOEDIST.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/12TY_STY.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/13TY_STY2.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/14TY_BAARTORCH.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/15TY_BAART2.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/16TY_VONCK1.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/17TY_VONCK2.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/17BTY_VONC3.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/18TY_VONCK4.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/19TY_VONCK5.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/20TY_VONSIRT.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/21TY_SOFTW.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/22TY_RTSCTRL.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/23TY_MUSFIND.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/24TY_FINALE.mp3 www.friedhelmgoetz.com/25TY_ZUGABE.mp3




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-09-2002).]

Even though I didn't understand what was said, this is a great demo. Very entertaining to hear familiar american tunes performed in a 'distinctly German' style. As usual I'm totally 'blown away' by the awesome realism, especially the guitar & bass patches. The organs sounded particularly impressive as well. Who's the guy playing the Tyros? He's both a terrific keyboard player & versatile performer? Donny, thanks for sharing the link. Are you 'any more' impressed with Tyros after hearing all these new demos?

AWESOME demo. Especially the clasical stuff he did starting with Beauty & the Beast. Great player - great sounds.
Wish it had built in speakers.

Incredible.....the Sweet Violin sample wow!

I'd hump a stack of sky high Marshalls if I needed to with this board. No offense to any, but I just cannot believe the big deal being made over the speakers, we're talking humping one extra box/bag. The sound of the board should be the primary concern IMO, the rest is just the mechanics of making it happen.

Thanks Dnj for putting this up even the way this was recorded then compressed with mp3, to me hands down, best sounding board I have ever heard including any workstations.
Terry

Uncle Dave & Donny: I concur with you guys about preferring that the Tyros came with 'built in' speakers, which has subsequently resulted in all my recent posts desperately searching for another kb monitoring alternative. It's appearing that the Tyros sub woofer & speakers may not be as difficult or time consuming to attach/dettach as I originally thought. I read on the Yahoo forum that there may be a way to make a simple alteration to the satellite speakers so they will be able to slip in/out of the keyboard holder rather than have to be screwed in. I was impressed with the 9000pro over a year and 1/2 ago, but it's large size and weight kept me away. The Tyros, at a mere 27 lbs (granted without speakers) is nearly half the weight and small enough (with case) to easily fit in the trunk of my car. If the Tyros speakers are as easy & quick to attach/dettach and transport as I hope, I probably will be going with Tyros, but you probably already knew that huh?

Donny: Though I personally prefer having built in speakers as well, I think that in Yamaha's eyes (and many pro synth players as well), that only non Speaker keyboards are considered 'PRO' boards, while keyboards with speakers geared for the home user. I believe Yamaha actually came out with the 9000PRO in an attempt to attract the Pro keyboard market to an arranger style keyboard. In a sense it's worked, because the 9000pro appears to be one of the first arrangers to be reviewed by Keyboard Magazine and receive praises by mainstream pro musicians as well.

- Scott

Dnj,
Well,I guess different strokes for different folks.....but think about this...none of the so called "Pro" workstations come with speakers. I've never heard anyone that used them myself included say....man if it only had internal speakers. Personally, I think it was a very smart move of Yamaha to offer it both ways in one package. Those that use more high powered stage setups and monitors, buy it without and for those that want to have them as monitors buy them with, it's really that simple a decision.

Simon already said, that the brackets stay on and all one has to do is release the catch and they come off, perhaps a 15 second setup and tear down.

It's the way this board is, if that really irritates you enough over the remander of the features and sounds....simple decision, don't buy one. I believe with the way they are faced rather than pointing at the ceiling and with the subwoofer, it's going to sound far better then two dinky speakers mounted internally would sound. As far as the weight....if they were in the board, the board would be heavier, so you either carry the weight in one heavier package or two lighter ones.
jam on,
Terry

Donny: I just found out that the Tyros satellites speakers deliver 20 watts per channel and that its sub woofer delivers 40 watts per channel. This totals much more than my PSR2000 delivers so it seems like sufficient monitoring volume (to me). The Fender (20 lbs) is basically the same weight as the Tyros sub woofer plus the 2 satellite speakers. I think the avantage of utilizing speakers mounted on the keyboard facing you is that it offers more accurate mid-high frequency ear level monitoring which the Fender (if situated on the floor) could not provide. I think the increased time it would take to setup & attach the Tyros speakers compared to setting up the Fender unit is probably pretty marginal: 30 seconds at most, especially if you leave the mounting brackets attached to the KB, allowing the little satellite speakers to easily slide and lock via a convenient clip/lock system.

For those situations (very small rooms with very few people) where I still want to utilize the kb's built in speakers for BOTH monitoring as well as providing the main sound to the audience, I'll continue to take the lightweight 24 lb PSR2000.

Yep in my opinion you have the best of both worlds! You've got a lightweight pro looking keyboard that you can plug into a decent external PA system, yet within seconds you can clip on the satellites and put the sub on the floor to get a decent sound quality far better than any internal speaker system could offer!

Simon

Tyrosworld
__________________________________________
(part of the SVPworld / PSRworld network) http://www.tyrosworld.com
email: info@tyrosworld.com
__________________________________________

Scott,
I think the guy is Michel Voncken, a 'Dutchie' who is sales-director in Germany and I was told he was directly involved in the creation of 'european' styles.
His spoken German has a slight dutch accent.

Unfortunately the audio quality is very poor.
I hope one of the (dutch) dealers is able to record more demo's in better Q.

Roel

Hi guys.

I can take or leave internal speakers. Here's why, I just played a 50th wedding anniversary that was held in the couples home. I still brought my PA and one Traynor cabinet that contained a 15 and a horn. Yes the X1 internal speakers aren't bad but I would never use them for a performance even in a small room. Same with the PSR2000 that I tried. The sound quality isn't there. It is easy to reproduce good bass at high sound levels, hard at soft volumes. You need a big speaker and a few watts to get good bass at low volume levels.

I also don't use the internal speakers as monitors because they sound so much different that the mix comming out of the PA.
For me an extra 5 or ten minutes setting up is worth the improved sound.

Donny and U.D. I wish I could be there to have breakfast with you guys. Maybe I'll have to make my trip to NY an annual event.

Tom

I could use the internal speakers for monitors but I would never use them as my sole amplification, no bottom end.

I wonder if its "ok" to make recordings of these demos. I'm attending one next week, I could take my digital recorder along and put something down.

S.

Thanks for the "Live" demos. Very impressive. IMHO, they sound much better through headphones with a "binaural" ambiance. BTW, I could only download the first three files from friedhelgoetz.com - hopefully the site is only temporarily down.

RE: Built-in speakers. Certainly a matter of personal preference, but my vote is for external monitors. I use a pair of Mackie HR824s which I dearly love and which can deliver loud yet very accurate sound. I played the factory MP3s through the Mackies last night and was amazed by how great the Tyros sounds!

It's simply not true that good bass is difficult to get with small speakers. I have a Gallean Krueger bass amp that measures a little more than 1 square foot and is only 6 or 7 inches deep. It puts out 150Watts(with an added 8 ohm speaker, 90 by itself)and sounds as ballsy as all get out. Many times, if the kb speakers are just too "light" I add this amp (on the floor) to punch up the bottom without adding any more "progection" to the room. In many smaller venues, the speakers from the kb, added to my acoustic voice are MORE than enough for a background situation, and any more would be inapropriate. Adding the bass amp really rounds ount the sound and makes the total package sound as if it were comming from much lerger speakers. It's all relative to the room and the sonic requirements.

Well over 100 times year, I use the internal speakers as the "main" sound source, and I have no complaints so far. It's not always a concert, and it's almost never "too quiet". I make the adjustments accordingly. I always have more amps in the car if I need them.

As good as the demos for the Tyros sound, I still am not excited about a "mute" keyboard. It's simply too impractical for my needs. I relay on that sound to fill up the space where "I" play. Sometimes I need to progect it to another area, but I almost ALWAYS need to fill up at least "MY" space, right?

Don't take that "PRO=Speakerless" mentality. A smart performer will utilize whatever tool they can to make the job go smoothly. If saving setup time is important, and bulky speaker stands are unwelcome in a refined situation - than you just gotta go with the internal option. I do so many house parties that even the EV's look to "concert" ready to be apropriate. Sometimes, LESS is definatly more. Keep an open mind about the sound system issues. There's a LOT of money to be made in the entertainment industry that will NEVER require a concert setup. If I can't carry everything in with ONE trip .... it's a VERY rare occasion.

What happened to the first 'three' MP3 links of Michel Voncken's Tyros demo? I was able to link to and listen to them yesterday, but today the link appears dead. Did anyone here possibly download/save these? If so, can you post them or send them via email? All the other links appear to work fine. Thanks. - Scott
http://www.intact-music.de/bilder/8TY_BLUES.mp3
http://www.intact-music.de/bilder/9TY_SHADMAND.mp3

http://www.intact-music.de/bilder/10TY_SAXGEIG.mp3

They removed all of them. The reason was that they (Yamaha ?) were afraid that people would loose interest to attend the promotional shows/events that are being arranged in Germany in various Music
shops by the same persons.

However, apparently Simon was fast enough to get all these and he is putting them on his "Tyrosworld forum". See
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tyrosworld/message/317

I wrote some notes about these on the original posting on Bob Gelman's Yamaha-styles forum. You might take a look at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamaha-psr-styles/message/16252

Cheers
Kari

Very nice indeed !!! Wow !!!

My opinion about the entire speaker issue is this..... I never did nor would play ANY gig just utilizing the on board speakers only period. If it entailed another trip to the van....so what, that's what you're getting paid for, to put together a professional sounding show and "utilizing whatever tools" are necessary to do so.

Pro does not = speakerless and was not my point. The point was that the overwhelming vast majority of gigging musicians do not let boards without speakers stop them from buying a board that inspires them.
jam on,
Terry

It's time to educate the overwhelming vast majority of musicians that are lugging too much gear around needlessly.

I've uploaded a couple of pictures illustrating how the satellite speakers clip on and are attached to the Tyros. See under photos section at the TyrosWorld yahoo group.

Regards
Simon




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________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
________________________

I have them all, around 35MB and listened to them last night after converting them to an audio cd, 74 mins+ ! It was nice to be there, though I'm looking forward to attending the UK show here next week in Hereford (last one!). As almost all the Tyros shows are almost completed, I dont think the reason they were removed was as mentioned. Anyway as long as I do not get a "nasty" letter telling me otherwise within the next day or so, I will attempt to upload them all for you all.

Simon



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________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
________________________

U.D.

Thank for making my point without realizing it. I'm very familier with the Gallean Krueger amps. They make good stuff. I said it is hard to make good bass at low volumes with low wattage and small speakers. What does the Gallean Krueger have? 150 watts and at least a 10 inch speaker. I said nothing about the overall size of the total package. Years ago I had a Polytone amp that also was a small package that kicked, but the formula was the same, 10 to 12 inch speaker and lots of watts.

A 5 1/4 inch speaker and 15 watts coming out of the internal speakers of the run of the mill arranger keyboard will reproduce sub standard bottem end at any volume let alone low volumes.
Do our customers know the difference. Usually no. They also don't know when you are having a bad night. Sometimes our band will just not click and we put out performances that we know are not up to our usuall standards. People will still come up and say how good we sounded. Just because your customers don't complain doesn't mean that the sound couldn't be better.

Since I have a limited amount of talent I'm going to do everything I can to produce the best sound I can. That includes carting around extra speakers and amps when I could get by without them.

Now if I had YOUR talent I wouldn't even bother to bring a keyboard. I would just show up and sing Acapocco.

How was breakfast? Did Donny buy?

Tom

Aren't we hearing from some of the same people who complained that the 9000, with built in amp/speakers was way too BIG and HEAVY for gigging???

Simon and I and a number of others are already using the TYROS speaker/amp setup: It's called YST-MS50. It sounds great! It would probably be sufficient in itself for a lot of jobs. Carrying the smaller 27lb TYROS with these separate speakers/subwoofer should be MUCH easier than carrying an all-in-one unit like the 9000.

I guess some people just like to bitch.

http://tomshardware.bizrate.com/Yamaha%2...d--5157847.html

prices on the Tyros speaker system


also....aren't these just good Home Computer speakers?
Are they gonna be "ROAD WORTHY" for a every day/night gigging musician? Hmmmmmmm?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-10-2002).]

Uncle Dave,
"It's time to educate the overwhelming vast majority of musicians that are lugging too much gear around needlessly."

OK, give the likes of Stevie Wonder, Michael McDonald, Keith Emerson, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Oscar Peterson on and on and on and on a call and tell them what dopes they are for using external speakers.

Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 10-10-2002).]

Terry,
If those guys played the kind of jobs that required small setups and they brought concert gear - then I'd have to tell them the right way. There is no "ONE WAY" to do everything. There is a right tool for the right job, and that will always be the case. I almost always have extra amps needed, but when they are not needed ... there is no way I'll bring them in.
Sometimes a small, quiet, personal show is EXACTLY what the client needs, and in many cases ... more gear just detracts from the total performance. Looks count too.
Terry - relax - this is not a personal attack. Just another way to do it.

Tom - Sometimes you say the nicest things. Accapella huh? It's a struggle these days to just get through the night after ingesting everyone's filthy smoke all these years. 33 years of inhaling and I never took a puff !

I may be in the minority here, but demos or not, I am not won over by the Tyros at all. IMO, my PSR2000 is still the best bang for the buck. Roadweary-ness, HD capabilities, etc., are all very good points, but, to coin a phrase, "it's all about the music". My little "fragile" PSR2K has all I need and then some. Tyros doesn't bring THAT much more to the table, soundwise, to warrant the resale of a keyboard that I haven't had for a whole year yet, and pay more money for. I guess that's why they call them 'opinions'...

In the US, it's still all just conjecture, because we haven't had a change to play one. Until that happens, I believe it is best to reserve judgement.
It IS great to have all these choices, such as Tyros, Ketron, GEM. . .
DonM

I'm not totally won over by the Tyros either, or any other board out there. The sole reason for that is I don't get giddy about anything any more until I can get my own hands on it so that I can try it for myself. That doesn't mean I'm not interested though. I am waiting in anticipation to try the Tyros and the Ketron XD9 too. I waited for a long time before I got to see and try a VA76, and I liked it, but I'm still happy with my current setup for the time being.

As Don says, it is great that we have these choices. I understand what you are saying Cam, because I had similar thoughts when I had the 740 and I saw the 9000, but after spending some quality time with the 9000, I realized that there was a good bit of difference. I ultimately decided not to upgrade to the 9000, but that's mainly because I went in a different direction totally, which ended up with the PA80 as my arranger. I do miss my 740 sometimes, and I'm sure I would have enjoyed the 9000, but if the Tyros or XD9 don't blow me away, I might even go back to the 2000 as a backup, assuming I can get one that works properly this time ( the odds are surely in my favor )

AJ

Dave,
"Terry - relax - this is not a personal attack."
I never thought it was, I'm just a bit bored with hearing "Well it doesn't have internal speakers though."

From my perspective, which is obviously different than your needs, the Tyros speaker setup is not a problem at all. Considering the tons of cool new things this board has, not to mention the most important, the sound, even if I hated the speakers, I wouldn't let that stop me from all the plus's. Is all I'm really trying to get across to you.

This sounds like it's just not a board for you, which is ok too.
Terry

At first, I read that as saying that I was out of place on this message board, but after I re-read it, I'm sure you meant the TYROS, right? (The KEYboard's not for me) Your posts are never hurtful .... I'm sure I misunderstood it the first time.

BTW- How long has it taken you to record so many CD's? In some ways ... this makes you more succesful than the Beatles, you know !

Dave,
I ABSOLUTELY meant the Tyros as not being the board for you. I think you are one of the best forum members that is here posting. Because we can agree to disagree about equipment as you said there is nothing personal meant nor taken, at least by me anyway.
Terry

BTw about the cd's I've been at recording them 4/5 years. And about the Beatles....perhaps by cd #'s but certainly not sales revenue.

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 10-10-2002).]

To quote a great musician ....... "Jam on"

Another one said, quote, "Rock on".
Seems this thread is running out of steam while we are waiting for more buyers of the Tyros to report back, me included!


------------------
Roy-Andrè

Roy,
The good news in the US is that the president ordered the dock workers back to work, so mine may be coming soon. It's a good thing I called and asked the president to see what he could do.
jam on,
terry

We have already been told of import delays for the Tyros here in the UK, it was planned for mid October, we are now looking some time in November. No ideas why yet though!

Simon



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________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
________________________

Look. If you have a gig on the 3rd floor of a nursing home, you aren't going to want to make two trips to the car. It's that simple. Now I think I could carry a Tyros, the speakers, and my JBL Eon10 in one trip. The separate speakers are an inconvenience. I might balk at the Tyros for the price, but besides that issue, it sounds like an incredible keyboard. I would like to get one because my competition might be purchasing the Tyros. It does sound quite superior to the PSR2000, and the features ...

I'm wondering how the external speakers sound to the audience when they are turned away from them - this for smaller venues. It would be a hassle to have to lug all of that stuff for a small gig.

And the extra setup time does matter. When you have a wife and a kid that you want to spend time with, and if you do two gigs a day, that setup time starts to add up. So I'm not excited about the 10 minutes extra a day that I won't be at home. I might post less on this forum.

Beakybird

These speakers are 80 watts and weigh 22 lbs (in the box). Thats got to be the best power to weight ratio I've heard of. Can you imagine an 80 watt PSR9000... Now were talkin inconvenient. FWIW

Midnite